The Truth About Young Goalkeeper Development | Alan Fettis

Alan Fettis has lived one of the most remarkable journeys in modern goalkeeping. From idolising Pat Jennings on Belfast streets to carving out a professional career at Hull City and earning 25 caps for Northern Ireland, his story is built on resilience, adaptability and a deep love for the craft. In this episode, Alan takes us through the moments that shaped him, the setbacks that hardened him and the opportunities that changed everything.

We explore the hidden talent of the Irish League, what it feels like to lose your starting place, and the surreal day he ended up playing outfield in a professional match. Alan also shares the self-driven learning that defined his coaching foundation long before he entered elite environments, revealing how DVDs, curiosity and countless hours shaped his understanding of goalkeeper development.

The conversation goes deeper when he talks about coaching at Manchester United, the snowstorm interview that opened the door, the evolution of David de Gea, and the training revolution under Louis van Gaal. Alan breaks down the modern goalkeeper’s tactical demands, the rise of analysis overload, managing different personalities and why enjoyment is being squeezed out of the game more than ever.

For young goalkeepers, parents and coaches, this is an honest, detailed and insightful look into what it takes to survive and grow in a constantly evolving position. Alan’s reflections offer a powerful blend of experience, humility and hard-earned wisdom.

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Transcript

0:05

Every goalkeeper remembers the first moment the game grabbed them, the first idol, the first save, and for Alan Fetis. That moment began on the pictures of Northern Ireland before carrying them across leagues, countries, and eventually into the coaching rooms of Manchester United. In this episode, Alan opens the door to a life spent inside Goalkeeping at the highest level, from battling for early opportunities to guide in future internationals. His journey shows how his resilience, curiosity, and quiet graft ship the keepers who go on to thrive. This is a conversation about the game behind the game, the mindset, the evolution, and the small details that make a goalkeeper grow. A brilliant story from a man who's lived every chapter.

Paul 0:58

​Hello and welcome back for another episode of Catching Up with EVOGK. I'm Paul Banks, and today my guest is the fantastic alan Fettis. Alan, welcome to the show.

Alan 1:08

Thank you.

Paul 1:10

a bit of information about Alan, if you're not aware already. So, he was born in Newtownabbey, Northern Ireland in 1971. Carved out a long playing career as a goalkeeper across Britain and Ireland, and turned professional in the early 1990s, making hundreds of senior appearances and earned 25 caps for Northern Ireland as well. That's correct. after hanging up his gloves, he quickly moved into goalkeeper coaching, taking roles at clubs, including Derby County, Sunderland, and most notably, a long spell at Man United's academy, before joining first Team Goalkeeper coach at Middlesbrough FC in 2022. I always have to take a moment when I've read the bios, Alan, because, I try not to fanboy too much during the episodes, but it's what an amazing background. you've done some amazing things with your career and I always start at the beginning, which is where I think a lot of us start our football journey as, kids is Who was your goalkeeping idol when you grew up?

Alan 2:08

Goalkeeping Idol growing up was obviously coming from Northern Ireland, was Pat Jennings. and I suppose Jim Plat also, although, because Pat was so good, Jim didn't play that much. You never saw him, but he still, I think he got 35 caps, which is still pretty good. so they were my two idols, if you like, growing up. But, being from Northern Ireland in the seventies and eighties, my dad used to take me to Irish League games, so Linfield would've gone watch Linfield. You'd have George Delap. So George Delap was seen as probably the best goalkeeper, arguably the best goalkeeper, I would probably say that, Harvey Patterson was probably, as good as, and I managed to train with, at Glentoran as well, when I signed for Glentoran. So, those were probably my idols, but I always looked across at, and you always watched, growing up in the seventies and eighties, you always watched what you could on, on television. You, you went and looked for stuff, not so much now where it's just you're swamped with stuff, but yeah, you went and searched for, games and, midweek sports special and, grandstand and football focus. you went and searched for these programs so that you could see and watch the games from England and Scotland and, and Europe and, seeing all these different goalkeepers. And you could see the goalkeepers growing up, like Bruce Grobbelaar, and people like that. And Ray Clemence. And yeah. Alex Stepney was always a big hero of mine and Gary Bailey, obviously being, a Manchester United fan. So all these goalkeepers together, just growing up, watching them and you just wanted to just, I just wanted to be a goalkeeper then, and yeah. And emulate those, types of goalkeepers.

Paul 3:55

It's funny, I always remember my dad saying, talk about someone. He said he had hands like Ray Clemmence. And, it just, it's always stuck with me. And, when you mentioned that, it just triggered that off, but I, so if, you look at, say Pat Jennings as the first person that you mentioned, what specifically, what do you think his key skills and attributes were that, as a kid drew you to him as to, to, as an idol?

Alan 4:18

I think one he was Northern Irish and he was playing at the highest level, he was playing for sports and playing for Arsenal and, having a wonderful career. And you just, and like I said, coming from a little council estate, in Newtonabbey. And people around there. Jimmy Nichol was from the next estate from us. So having people like that, that were so close to where you lived, you thought, oh, there might be a chance. You always had that dream of maybe I just want to get across the border

Paul 4:46

local boy, done good, right?

Alan 4:47

Just want to get over there and do something. But Pat Jennings was always, he was always very calm and he made unbelievable save and he dominated in the air. And, Pat wasn't a massive goalkeeper, but he was just, he made saves that he just, I suppose now you'd say, oh, I save him with his feet. That's what you do. But people, he was, I suppose in some ways he was unorthodox, but he was just such a fantastic goalkeeper. It's kept the ball out, right? Well, yeah, a bit more than that, but yeah. Yeah. Spain in'82 was just incredible. And it, that game everybody talks about the game where they beat Spain looking at Armstrong, or Mal Donaghy got sent off, but Pat Jennings that night was, unbelievable. He was incredible.

Paul 5:30

Amazing. and so we'll, come back to Pat Jennings, at the end of the show. So we've got, I've got a couple of questions that I'll ask you around that, but I guess you grew up Northern Ireland playing local grassroots football all the way through to, what level did you get to in Northern Ireland before you made the leap to English League?

Alan 5:48

I played Irish League. I played for Ards. so I started my youth team, Irish League with, Glentoran and then moved to Ards and I managed to get in and play some Irish League football at Ards and then got transferred to Hull City.

Paul 6:05

You came through the Hull City. what did, was the, was there any step up in the, difference of the leagues? Was there a difference in quality or, yeah,

Alan 6:12

the Irish League at that time was pretty good. There was a lot of, ex-professional and there was a lot of good Irish league players. and the Irish League was, a half decent standard, So it was a good standard, but for a part-time league, for a part-time division. I think I was 18, 17, 18 when I got made my league debut in the Irish League. And it was, and I was quite a late mature, or I was quite a thin and I think I made my league debut for whole. I was 11 stone too. So I was, very, I had a lot of growing. That'd be nice. I still had a lot of growing to Yeah, no, I know. I still had a lot of growing to do. so I guess what I was then, when I made the league debut at odd, so it was that was a, challenge in itself. And obviously it was only part time. You were two nights a week and a game on a Saturday and there was no, gym work and things like that. You had to go and find that. You had to go to the local Leisure centre, the Valley Leisure centre and, do some weights and things like that, so I had to try and, build up some strength. but, yeah, the Irish league was, the Irish League was good. The Irish league was a good standard. Yep. There some really good players in, in, in that orange team, and certainly some really good players in the, Linfield and Glentoran teams who were dominant teams at the time Portadown then and started to make a bit of an impact along with Glenavon, So there was four teams that really were, starting to push rather than there was always Glentoran, Linfield in seventies.

Paul 7:38

And so then you made a hundred appearances for Hull. was that kind of consecutive appearances? Did you have gaps in those appearances or were you

Alan 7:45

No. My first season, my first season at Hull, it went, pretty well. I think I played 40-something games for that season. So for the first season, it went, pretty well, and I didn't know why it was going to happen. and it you was just hoping it was gonna work out and it was okay. It went all right. things to learn and made mistakes. Of course you do. But, But it was overall, I think for our first season it went pretty well. Second season, not so well. Steve Wilson got in the team and Willow was a fantastic goalkeeper as well. and got in the team and, played well and I had to wait in return and, but it was a good learning, and a good lesson for me. Good learning curve, a good lesson for me to, okay. So I had to work even harder to try and get myself back in the team and sure, you have to build up a little bit resilience and find ways of, getting back in the team, So there was no goalie coaches then. It was just me and Steve together, and I think Rod Arnold would've come in maybe once a month or something at the time. so you had to find ways of trying to better yourself, trying to find different exercises to do. And so that was probably my first venture into coaching, coaching yourself. Coaching yourself. Yeah.

Paul 9:07

Yeah. Why not? Why not? so does, Getting back into the, the Hull team involve you playing up front, I believe.

Alan 9:17

Yeah. that was a, yeah, that was a few, years later. What happened was, I would, at, the time there was, I can't remember, I think it was three subs, I think the increased at the three subs, and one of them had to be a goalie. So I was, Steve was in the team. I damaged my thumb and I couldn't do any handling work. I had to rest it. But I was still training with the players in the outfield, keep fitness up and the squads were small at the time as well. There wasn't massive scores now, and I hold, didn't have a great deal of money either. So it was a case of needs must, and it was just before Christmas, I was out doing the warmup for Steve and Neil Allison came across and he, who was subbed that day and said, gaffer wants you to put number 12 on. He, we've got Linton Brown was carrying an injury. We might not get through the game. He may have to come on up front. I thought, to be honest, he was a joker of the team and I thinking, oh, here we go again. I thought I, I got on with that. Just thought, well, Steve's most important thing here. I need to warm Steve up and give him what he needs. So one, Steve had done his bit. I went in and, lo and behold, managers, I need you to put this on Linton's car. You may have to go on. I was like, I okay, whatever. Like, so put outfield kit on and I think there was 13 minutes left and Linden, I needed to come off. So that was that. Yeah. So that was my first venture up front. And I ran on, and I think Terry's words were run on, make a nuisance to yourself and see what we can do Now we Oxford at the time were, I think they were top of the league or second or something like that. They were doing really well. They were playing really well. and we were doing okay. I think we were we were top 10 or, so it was. Yeah, it was a big game. Steve played really well on the day. I think Dean Windass scored the first one. And I just came on and ran in the box and the ball came on, I just put my foot on it if I did anything. So that was, yeah, very, amazing. Odd, very odd. Amazing. But still, a lot of people seem to remind me of that. There's a lot of people at the game that day. I think there was about 27,000. That's the amount of people that, that's a good amount for. Yeah. But there was only about 3000 there, really. But there seems to be a lot more that, anytime you go the hall, it's, oh, I was at the game. It was good times. Good times.

Paul 11:45

It's not very often a keeper gets license to score a goal. Outfield, right.

Alan 11:52

No, Definitely made a

Paul 11:53

nuisance. I'd certainly

Alan 11:55

be it. Certainly. I think I'm, I think I chased a back pass down and I've realised then, oh, now I know where I played in goal Yeah, no

Paul 12:03

more of that. No more of that. so then obviously you, also went on to earn 25 caps for Northern Ireland. What does it feel like stepping out on the national stage, regardless of the crowds? Like that's, I think,

Alan 12:17

yeah, the crowds, I play, I was fortunate to play against some really good teams. I remember one game in Portugal, in Porto, we drew one each and I had a, good game that night. But the, whole crowd was fantastic. the atmosphere was really, it was a little bit different to what I was used to. I was playing third tier, football, so it was different, but it never really, bothered me. Crowds and stuff, I think the, bigger the crowd, the more you just got involved in the game. You couldn't really hear the noise when there's less people there. It's not sphere. Right? Yeah. When there's less people there, you hear every comment and you hear, yeah.

Paul 13:04

Whether you want to or not.

Alan 13:05

Well, exactly. and, there's, lots of things that you, think, oh, wowsers. But, yeah, the, bigger the crowd, I think it was just a, good atmosphere, good noise. Never, it never really bothered me, too much. I remember playing Republic of Ireland, Lansdowne Road, and I think we were allowed something like 50 tickets or something like that. That was all there was. We, there was no, nobody from the North allowed to come to, To Lansdowne Road. so it was a brilliant, it was a brilliant day. It was a brilliant game. The atmosphere was Fantastic. Electric, we drew one one, but, games like that was just. Just fantastic games, like you really, good games.

Paul 13:50

And then, you retired at some point, but you moved straight into coaching. Did, was that something that you saw coming from a distance? Was that something you intended?

Alan 13:59

I don't, did I intend it? I loved it. I always, did it. Like I said earlier, I always did it. Yeah. because we had no goalie cultures. you were buying, DVDs, you were buying Simon Smith's videos and stuff. You were buying books. I bought, I, funnily enough, I saw it the other day. I was cleaning, I cleaning something out. I thought, oh, there's a Peter Shilton book. and I bought like things that was Martin Arndt and, Hans Leitner and think people from a, from abroad. So you ban all these books and, videos at the time and DVDs just so that you could, Practice and do different things and do different what, could help you? And you made things up yourself and, you work with the other goalie coaches or the other, you, other goalkeepers, like I said, there were no goalie coaches. And, then when that, rod come in, he would come in.'cause he used to do some work, with the Goalkeeping schools. So he'd come in and show us different things. We'd do that, we'd carry that on. So I suppose in some way, yeah. Coaching was always there.'cause I enjoyed doing it and I enjoyed sort of making things up and making mistakes and getting things wrong. I will not do that again, but yeah. but I also, as I was getting towards the end of my career, so of mid to mid thirties, I took a degree or I started doing a sports science degree.'cause I thought, well, I'm getting towards the end of this career. What am I gonna do next? Yeah. And I had done, I'd done my licenses and stuff. I started doing those and. but I didn't know what, I didn't know what was gonna happen. You you panic a little bit and you're worried and you go, what am I gonna do next? So I took on a science degree, didn't realise how difficult it was gonna be. it was six years. It was so difficult. Wow. And so I finished my, I finished playing and then we moved house. I moved jobs. I went to, my first coaching job was at Derby. Then I came up to Sunderland and we moved house. We came up here and I'm still trying to do this course, which was six years. And it was just so, it was just so difficult. But yeah. So the coaching went okay. The coaching went okay. And I managed to work at some brilliant academies and and ended up finishing my degree.'cause I thought, well I actually was gonna go back home and probably I was thinking about maybe being a, PE teacher or something like that, and another career and have another 20, 25 years career. And then that would be me retire and go live in the sun. But, Yeah, so the, coaching seemed to go okay. Derby was a brilliant grounding for me, a really good grounding. I went in with Billy Davis. Kevin Thelwell was academy manager. so that was a really good grounding. It was so tough. really tough. There was a lot of long hours, all different age groups at one point,'cause Billy lost his job and Paul Jewel took over. So they were waiting for, Gary Walsh to come in. So I was doing first team down to under nines. So that was, a difficult, I think it was about eight weeks, six to eight weeks. That was a difficult time. I thought, well, if I can get through this bit, that'll tell me if I really want to start coaching. Yeah. And I did. And I got through it and I got to the, to towards the end of the season before I got sacked.'cause we got relegated. So course I was the derby era, in the Premier League. So we, Yeah, of course we're getting caught and I lost my job and, and moved on. But, that was a, tough ground, but it was brilliant'cause the staff there was so, so good. And the academy so good. really enjoyed my time there. And then came to Sunderland and again, that was great staff. Really, good staff. And it was just, with Kevin Ball was under him so I was a Goalkeeping coach for Kevin Ball, but Jed was there and Elliot was there and it was a really good club at the time. Steve Bruce was manager and a good relationship with, Nigel Spink as well. So, it was a really good club at the time. and it was actually a little bit of a wrench to leave, to be honest. If it wasn't for Manchester United, I, I was quite happy there. It was, a good club. And that's where you

Paul 18:14

first started building a relationship with James Howarth as well, right? Yeah, of course. Yeah.'cause

Alan 18:18

James, come in, Yeah, we, had him in trial for a bit, but just decided not to take him in the end. But he was, oh, this chair. That was this chair. so, yeah, he, yeah, James came in on the trial and, he did. Okay. he did okay. But we had some good goalies there. Yeah. He some really good goal. So to come in and, to surpass the likes of Ben Wilson. Yeah. Jordan Pickford, Joel Dixon was in there. Jonny Maddison was in there as well. Yeah. Yeah. Trevor Carson. Yeah. so there, there was some really good goalies in there. Louis King came in from Derby, funnily enough. good, really good goalkeepers. They have a real it, and they always have done, son have always had some really good goalkeepers and still do. Yeah. pruds does a really good job up there as well. and, Kevin Wolf done a great job before I. I came in as well. So they had some good coaches, but they had some really

Paul 19:20

good, talented, you met another one of our guests, during your time at Sunderland as well'cause we had Jonathan Craig on the show as well. And he mentioned, you, you had a hand in, joining the Sunderland coaching team at one point, right?

Alan 19:32

Yeah, well, it was, you were trying to, you were trying to build things and you're trying to do the best. When I went in it, it had been, it had been left a little bit. Kevin was, working, and then coming in and doing his bit and he was working all sorts of hours. so he needed, he just, it needed just trim down a little bit and a little bit more organisation. And once we organised it a little bit better and made it more efficient, then I think it started to work better. and it was, yeah, we just needed, we needed coaches in, we needed different areas to develop and trying to the development squads and, fill in holes and gaps. And trying to develop as best we could within the budget that we had, grow it, right? Yeah. So it was, it was a good, it was a great time. And like I say, I'm being, I made loads of mistakes doing these things. but you learn from them. and that takes you, yeah. Hopefully takes you on to the next bit if you're willing to accept the mistakes. And I move on.

Paul 20:36

And then you've already, mentioned that you moved on to the Man United scene. what was that like? Because that's, a different world altogether, right?

Alan 20:46

yeah. It, is, and it certainly was. It was, well I applied for the job. I, didn't know if I was going to get it. And I was up upfront with, Jed as well, said, look, Jed, Manchester United have advertised Richard Hartis's job. he was leaving to go to Molde with, Ollie. and I applied and I got an interview. I managed to get the job, so I've bluffed Steeley enough to, to get the job, like, so that was a bit, that, that was 2011. So we, yeah, so I, went down for the interview, but the, this, the winter here was horrendous, right? It was horrendous. So dug my car out, I took my daughter to school. I remember going for this interview, dug my car out, the snow was there. It was, I was like, how am I going to get to this interview? Interview was two o'clock or something that afternoon. How am I gonna get to this interview? I dug my car out. I was like nine o'clock in the morning taking this car, trying to go. And it took me probably, an hour to get to the, A19 from, I lived in East Boldon. So the, A19, I was only a couple of miles. I was like, oh no, this is gonna be awful. This is all the way down. I'm never gonna make it. I'm going, this is a chance of a lifetime. Never gonna make it managed to get to bat time. I got to, to Middlesbrough. There was nothing. I was, I ended up putting my feet up for two hours in the car and probably fall asleep. But, Yeah, so that, yeah, so I got the job at United. It was, and it was for 11 and a half years. it was fantastic. It was an amazing place, an amazing club. I know it's had, its ups and downs and it's been, it, different levels and different things have gone on, but still for me, still Manchester

Paul 22:22

United though, right?

Alan 22:24

it's some place. I was down at the weekend and watching under 18 play. Wonderful, place.

Paul 22:30

And you've seen the likes of, and I got wrong for mispronouncing It from Steeley. You've seen the likes of David de Gea come through the ranks at Man United as well. what's, it like working with somebody who you can see such incredible talent potential, like the roof must be so high for those kids?

Alan 22:47

Yeah, I remember David De Gea walking in the office. I was sat with Steeley and he, walked in the office and says, oh, this is just David. And he was just 19-year-old, like thin, scrawny, straggly, beard, and like, wow. But when you seen him too. you saw him train and you go, oh yeah. You can see the talent that he's got. And certainly in those, early, days when Steeley got hold of him, and did the work with him and got him in the gym and built him up, he could see it just started to grow and grow into Manchester United. which is not an easy thing to do. and he just took it on. he, I have to say he had some resilience, certainly in the early days when he went in. He got beat up a little bit, Ander took him out and just went in and he got back in the team and then he just went from there. And that was him. That was him. And he was in the team for the next 10 years. Really? Yeah. but yeah, talented, boy, me, it's incredible sales, very athletic, quick. and like I say, very resilient. Very resilient.

Paul 23:56

I think it's safe to say that. During the time you were at United, there was a, there was certainly a period of a lot of change going on, lots of different things going on in the back, back offices and things. What, in terms of, training culture, maybe the pressure, what did the outside world not see that was going on at Man United at that time?

Alan 24:14

What with the changes of, managers and, yeah, the, main difference is the styles that, that then come into the club. obviously they'd spent so long with Sir Alex, and a style that he had basically developed for the whole club. and all the way through from, foundation phase as it became all the way through, there was this, there was Manchester United style of play, way of play. and then for it to change, I don't think, certainly from the goalkeeper side of things, whenever David Moyes come in with, woodsy, that didn't change too much. I think Eric's, style and Woodsy's style were quite similar, so there wasn't a big difference there with regards to, David and Anders there, they just, they, it's pretty much the same. So they were fine. obviously results then weren't as good. The team would change and Dave Moyes trying to put his stamp on it and trying to rebuild it, and it was always gonna be really difficult. really difficult. but certainly from the goalkeeper's perspective, didn't change too much. Didn't change too much. Obviously different status. Some in some, just basically, practices that have gone on are different, but, everything else was pretty much the same. Yeah. the biggest change then became when Mr. Van Gaal came in. Mr. Van Gaal came in, he had he had a real style. rightly wrongly, that was his style and they were very good at it. They were, how they trained his philosophy and methodology. That was how they had, sessions that were perfect for how they wanted it. And they trained it really well, but it was different and the goalies found it really different. Certainly. the English goalies at the table, certainly Sam Johnson, who was in around the first team found it difficult'cause there was a lot with, maybe they were ahead of the curve. I'm not sure how you would put it, but there was a lot in, with the team, in with the team. So Frans would put, would have the, goalies in with the team. They'd probably do a warm up with Frans, and then straight in with the team and everything was geared around the goalkeeper in with the team. So all the sessions were goalkeepers in and that's how they were getting their training. whether that's right or wrong, who's to say? I think me personally, a little hybrid of both. that's that. I, would work anyway trying to, yeah. hybrid and a little bit of both of, you're still getting your work, your individual work and unit work Yeah. Before you go in, in with the team and then coach them within the team environment. Yeah. But, that was, a, that was probably the biggest difference at the time. but I have to say the way they, trained it was very good.

Paul 27:09

I think that's the interesting thing for me with the son who's going through grassroots, is there's that we're, very fortunate that we've got a very good grassroots club. We've got a very good grassroots goalkeeper coach, which, when I was a kid that you, there's none of these things existed. You, you had the pink paper, as, Johno and Iain were talking about. You had the pink paper, you advertise for players and everybody turned up and did trials and stuff. and I wasn't even, I wasn't even good enough for that. but the thing I do see with my son is there's almost that gap there at that age. He's getting goalkeeper coaching on one side, which is really good, really focused on the technique. Then he gets really good kind of team coaching on, on, on the deer, and he gets his skills coaching with his feet and things like that. But there's almost that gap of how do you stitch the two together, which is where I guess, that, that is going, it's that kind of hybrid philosophy of, yeah, you need the technical stuff. Here's how to apply it to real life, but here's somebody who, when you are applying it to real life, understands what you are thinking and what you are doing, what you are not doing, as opposed to somebody coming out from the opposite perspective as an outfield coach who can stand there and go, right, well, I need the strikers to be shooting at the goalkeeper and I'm gonna praise the goalkeeper or tell'em they're done badly, but I don't really know what it is that they should be doing. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.

Alan 28:29

I think as well

Paul 28:29

with

Alan 28:29

that, I went and had a, a coffee with Paul McGinnis, who was under a teams, coach at Manchester. I went down and did, and Paul had been there a long time, and we have so. Dave used to ask about goalkeepers and I asked about centre Forwards and Defenders and, it's, almost like we were saying, look, yeah, I work especially with the goalkeepers, but also you gotta deal with, you gotta work with the centre forwards. you gotta work with the defenders as well because, you work really closely with these and if you can work together to one the defenders to stop shots and block shots in a certain way and you do up it or or to centre forward, look at the goalkeeper, look at his hands. Here's the space here. Look, at his position here. And he gets in that. So you might want try this, you might want, so there's, it's fine saying, yeah, we're goalkeepers and what we specialise and we want, obviously we wanna make the goalkeepers better. Of course we do. That's our job. Yeah. but also there's, add-ons and there's, a byproduct of that as well, which is, look, this is what we are focusing on. This is what you need to think about and you need to think about. Yeah. And we work, we can all work together. So he was, we were chatting about that and we were saying to get,'cause he was asking me about, what the goalkeepers, like, what they're not like, what you practicing? what's the next bit? What the, what, you were you looking to take it and how does that affect then the other parts that are, associated with that. and it was, Paul was, he's a, fantastic coach and the way he thinks about, different, things and his style of play and philosophies and different things. It was, a really good chat. And, yeah, so I think, that's certainly the goal keeping coaches and outfield coaches have got to think a little bit more of, and. Yeah, you're a goalkeeper coach, specialist coach, but you're also, you can help with the forwards and you can help with offenders and everybody should be in together and, trying to find the best way and the best. It's

Paul 30:30

a really interesting idea. I haven't really considered it from the other's perspective of really supporting the outfield, certainly the defenders in terms of what more they can be doing to support the goalkeeper from a goalkeeper's perspective. It's, I think there's, a lot to be taken from that. Well,

Alan 30:44

yeah. Well, I think most coaches now, there's that much analysis, certainly at first team levels, all the way through. There's, so much analysis, again, rightly or wrongly. I would before every game when I was at Middlesbrough, look at the goalkeeper. What's he do? what's his strengths? What's he weaknesses work? What do you think we can, and pass it on to the coach and say, look, this is what I think, this is what I thought. And he'd go, okay, well, I'll go and speak to him and, give him a little video, and, they're all doing, it's not just me doing that. Everybody's doing that. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, You just, you're just trying to help each try help the team, aren't you? You're trying to help the team.

Paul 31:21

So then you've had an amazing coaching career as well as an amazing playing career. What's the biggest kind of pinch me moment amongst all of that where you've maybe, I dunno, maybe met an idol of yours or you've worked with somebody who you've admired from afar? I dunno. What's, what really stands out across the time that you've had?

Alan 31:40

playing international football was an incredible achievement, But, I was very fortunate to play against, some, really good goalkeepers like goalkeepers that you'd, seen or you'd, grown up with. meeting Pat Jennings was a, bit of a pinch me moment. he became a coach in Northern Ireland, but he wasn't, people say, don't. don't meet your idols.'cause you'll be disappointed if you could never be disappointed. He was just exactly as you thought. He was an absolute gentleman and really nice person. just a very, charitable type of guy, And yeah. and he was just what you thought he was.. So that was a, bit of a pinch me moment, that he became my coach at Northern Ireland. So that was, I suppose going into Manchester United as a coach was a bit of a pinch me moment. Coming as a fan in Northern Ireland and then wanting to just play football in England if you could. but to actually get to Manchester now, I was never good enough to play for Manchester. Now, well that, that reserve game in pre-season, which it did, but I'll take that. but by the way, it was the only one we lost all pre-season, so it wasn't that good. Yeah. But that was, a bit of a pinch me moment being, being there and meeting sort of Sox Ferguson and seeing players like, you know, Paul Scholes and Wayne Rooney and people like that you Yeah, that was, but I was never, I've never one to get, pinch me moments as a footballer It is what it is

Paul 33:19

Yeah. And this is something that I was talking about with, Simon Smith on the last episode, was I think people can forget that we put footballers in the same category as celebrities and maybe right or wrongly, but we put'em up on this ped and they're almost become untouchables to, to us as kids. And all the way through in adult life, we forget that they're just humans. They're just people. They've got, they've got, somebody's gotta do the dirty dishes when they finish their meal and, they've got dirty laundry in their bedroom and, like they're just people, with a skillset with peer, the peer that comes with it, whatever. But. We go through the same experiences as everybody else. And I think there's too much of that forgotten in the modern day. We've almost moved them to deities. And it's I, remember gonna see Peter Shilton in the local shopping centre when I was a kid. like they're just people. and I think we should do more to remind ourselves of that.

Alan 34:18

yeah, I agree. I agree.'cause when, whenever, Edwin came in, Van Der Sar came into Manchester United, now he was someone that I, when I started my career in England, he was becoming a, he was a, and, moving on. He was like, he was one of the European superstars, goalkeepers at the time. And then to actually go in and do a better training with him. But again, one of the most down to earth humble people you could have, you could've imagined to me. And he was brilliant to work with. Yeah. I'm sure Eric would've said it says exactly the same. Yeah. they're brilliant to work with and, like I say, humble, but wanted to work and knew, so there was no like, ego with him or, yeah, I don't need, I'm not doing this session like what we're doing. Yeah. Okay. No problem. But do that, do roll the

Paul 35:05

sleeves up and get on with it. Yeah.

Alan 35:06

Yeah. brilliant.

Paul 35:09

cool. And then we've got the, the more recent news for yourself, Alan, where You are going to go to Everton as the academy coach for the goalkeepers there. working in, line of sight from JP1. that's gonna be, a phenomenal opportunity for you, for, what's next, right? You're looking forward to that.

Alan 35:29

I am looking forward to it. It'll be a challenge, but, it's not a job that I've not done before, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to it. I had a wonderful three years at, I had some really good times, but, being away from home is. It's, has, its, yeah. Has its, positives. Careful. Yeah. but, you've got a family and, it's, it's unfair at times as well. Yeah. But, so being back home, being home every night, again, so that will be, that'll be a good thing. But, as far as being offered the job and taking the job at Everton, I'm, looking forward to it. It's, it's, like I said, it's gonna be a challenge, but it's, I think I've spoken to someone, it's a club you've known,'cause you've been I've been in youth development a long time and you get to know staff and you get to know clubs and you get to know people. And I've known some of their staff a long time. There's some many United staff that, that are in Everett as well, so. It's, it's a, great club. It's a really good club. It's a progressive club at the moment now. Yeah, with a new stadium and the chain of ground's really good. And, they're trying to do things right. they've drawn a line under the problems that they've had, so hopefully they're, they're moving in the right direction, so, well, I'd like, I'm hopefully David's

Paul 36:52

back, right? David's back, at the Helm. Hill Dickinson Stadium. Looks tremendous, I have to say. I've got a lot of respect for the Toffees. I love, Everton as is my adopted second club because the relationship Sunderland has with them around Bradley Lowery and, and all that side of things. And, every step I've seen the Everton Fans take the respect and, show themselves in the right light. So I do wish you all the look there as well. Thank you, and congratulations on, getting that role. Okay. I'm sure that'll be a fantastic opportunity. I guess touching on Jordan Pickford, you must come across a wide variety of different personalities as goalkeepers. And we touched on this with Eric. And again with Simon is it takes a certain breed of person to want to be a goalkeeper and to put their head where other people wouldn't put their feet almost. how do you find yourself coping with the variety of different personalities within the training? Within the training sessions?

Alan 37:48

that's a, it's a difficult one to, manage the, to put a session on for all of them. You have to try. Of course, sometimes you'll just put a session on because you are working on one particular aspect. You think, well, I'm doing, I'm putting this on for you. And you may even say to the go, look, I'm putting this on for him. So just, but it will affect you and it will affect you and how we design the session, you'll get something outta yours. But it is, predominantly for this particular goalkeeper, it's, difficult. There, there's, it's funny I was speaking with, Hans Leiter recently. when I asked him a question about, he's, been around Europe and, been in England, but what is there, what's he seen that, that every goalkeeper has or what's, is there something that a goalkeeper has that sort of threads through all the ones that make it to this level? Yeah. And it's, it's there isn't, but there's also that intrinsic desire to be the best that they can be. And I, had I, and we agreed that, that was, one variable that, or, component that I think even to, even as an athlete, as an Olympic athlete, you just had that selfishness and that desire to be the best. And I think about it, I think the best that do, the ones that get up there. and he, and Anne said the same, which are the ones that constantly want to get better, constantly are challenging themselves, but also challenging the coach. Yeah. And ch and so you're always pushing back. Yeah. And they're pushing. And those ones, I've worked with Jordan, but he was, 15, through to 17. but he had that intrinsic desire to be the best, and I'm gonna be the best. Dean Anderson as well had that, that there's something in them that they just want to go and be the best. Some people go about it differently. Sam Johnson was, more of a, quieter type of personality, but he had that, I want to get better. I want to get better. And I think the best ones, the best athletes want to get better and they'll challenge and they, no matter what age they are, they'll always in their thirties, like, what else can I do? Look, I'm looking at this and looking at what else can I do? How can you think. Yeah. And then as a coach, it's the, it's fantastic.'cause then you then end thinking, well how can I do that? And you're getting better as a coach and you, so you're not just putting a session on'cause it looks good and it's great you're putting a session on'cause it's for a reason and you, it looked, and we, I went back last this summer, I did learning programs again and I thought, I didn't know how, I didn't know how I was gonna work. I did it with, with the sobering, I did it with the goalkeepers this summer with all of them. But, but Big Sol didn't know how, I didn't know how I would take it. Like, and I sat with him and we sat together and we, went, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? And it was just to try and focus his attention a little bit in, in, training to go, okay, so we've got what, and he was brilliant with it. and it just, it, I think it just, trained his eye a little bit more and, just focus. Not that he wasn't anyway like, but. We're doing this. Look, think about what we spoke about. Oh yeah, okay, we'll do that. And it worked brilliantly for him. And he's doing fantastically and all credit to him. But as a coach, you have to find ways of what's gonna motivate the these guys to try and what can I do that's gonna make them get out and that little bit better, that little bit more, what can I get more? And like, it's more of an academy type thing where you have to do your learning plans and all this sort of thing. And I thought, ah, we'll try it again and we'll do, and great. I did it with, with Zack Steffen as well when he came in and said, what do you think this? And he was very academic anyway, Zack come through the college system and everything in the us So he loved that. And he was, he liked that type of stuff. So, it's, good. These things work and these things work for different reasons and different ones. Some people like it, some people don't. Yeah. but, yeah, there's, different ways to, try and motivate the goalkeeper and try and get something out of them. But you've got to work together. You have to work together, you have to have that relationship that they trust you and they, can come to you. You want them to come to you and go, what do you think of this? and be completely honest with you. And then you can discuss sessions and you can discuss, well, I think you need to work on this. Look, I don't think this is good. You think your first touch is too close to your body? Think you need to get first touch out, or you're not seeing the press and you put whatever it may be. yeah. And we'll go, yeah, I'll get that. Look, here's a couple of clips here. What do you think? Yeah, I've got that. But, and once, once you have that relationship with your athlete, I think then you're on the right, you're on, the right way, you're on the right way. You're both going in the right direction.

Paul 42:56

Moving to the changes in evolution of the game that we've seen in recent years. And I, I think it's probably changed quite a lot in the last 10, 15 years. what do we've got things like the VAR, we've got go kick, rule changes, back, pass bands, all those sorts of things. How do you find that has changed the mental side of goal keeping from your perspective as a coach?

Alan 43:22

I think initially, I was playing when the back pass, rule changed. So that was, for me, that's, the biggest change in football and ever really, it's, certainly in our generation and it's, the biggest change. The game. The game's trends change. The trends of the game change. So styles of play change, but that law change football. Yeah. And people have then changed the trends of it and that, but that was the biggest for the better. I think it has. Yeah. I think it has. when you look back to the eighties and passing the ball back from the halfway line, the keepers picking it up and you think, God, yeah.

Paul 44:05

I remember those games.

Alan 44:06

I remember those. Yeah. Yeah, I remember those. And I remember. I remember like rolling the ball out and the centre forward coming and just smashing, picking the ball up and running over to the other side. I what you think, how do you get away with that now? But, so the game's certainly miles better for it. It's miles faster. It's, and the, goalkeepers now he's, a footballer that specialises in goalkeeping. That's what they are. it's changed, but I think now there seems to be a bit of a, bit of a cycle now, then they're going back. There's a lot more long balls. There's not, people are still trying to build, still trying to play through the lines and break the first line and fine. that's fine. But now the people are starting to go longer. And so there's a bit of a, trend that'll probably come in over the next few years, that there's gonna be longer balls. And so the, trends are, changing, all the time. And you've gotta move with it and identify that and, then develop your goalkeeper as such. But, Coming through academies now, all the goalkeepers are pretty much competent with their feet, and they understand what their job is. Now that's just evolved as natural evolution. with, the coaching now is in through acade, so all the goalkeepers coming through academies, coming into a first team are all pretty confident with their feet Now. It was a part of your philosophy and part of your, session designs and, program throughout the month or weeks or whatever, where you, programmed your, periodisation. it's, it was always, it just, okay, well we've gotta build, we've gotta start doing more passing or we've gotta start doing, we gotta be short and round and through. Into, she just worked in all those skills and joined them in with the team. So it's been going on since I started coaching. So it's just, again, it's just a natural evolution of that. But the, like I said, things will change and, so the, and you can see my United against Liverpool a couple of weeks back, my, whether that was a tactical thing, they saw something or whatever, but, lots of longer balls. Lots of longer balls, and teams are now starting to go longer. Even man City are starting to go longer from what they've changed. So, and then the grassroots

Paul 46:16

follows

Alan 46:17

and,

Paul 46:18

yeah, that's just the way it is, cycles. so before we wrap up, Alan, I mean I could, there's, been onte questions where I could just go off the deep end and, we'd probably end up chatting and you'd end up missing your dinner and we'd, I'd be late at home and get wrong. But going back to your idols, then we, talked about Pat Jennings, we talked about Bruce Grobelaar. and interestingly, you are like out four guests. You are the third person that mentioned Bruce Grobelaar, which just goes to show the impact that he had on people of our generation and onwards. But, how do you feel that they'd survive in what is a very data-driven game nowadays? A very analytical and probably faster paced game, I would say. do you think they'd keep in, they'd manage a hundred percent.

Alan 47:08

Yeah. Yeah. I think that they that good. If you're that talented, it doesn't matter. you'll just be talented at, however modern, the modern day, that's how it would be. you would have been coached that way and if you've got that talent, that mindset, you would, they'd be, they'd survive. No problem. I absolutely, a lot of the, goalkeeper. Back then the coaching was, they were just joining in with the team anyway. So some of the best goalkeepers that had, players at head tennis were the goalkeepers, so yeah, I, so they keep telling me like I was, but even I remember what the Blackburn and and Tim Flowers was like, brilliant at know, so, but, but yeah, but all these, I remember going on trial once to Watford and Tony Colton was there, and they had this, I think it was like a big wall thing, and they were in there banging the ball against the wall in the afternoon. I was like, looking, I go, what the noise of him? And they were there for, an hour, and a half, just so all these, that, that was, and had a, they had done their goalkeeper stuff, which was pretty basic at the time. you the corrigans and stuff like that across the goal and stuff like that, But they, they did loads of outfield stuff and loads of goalkeepers. So, so now if you're saying, would they cope? A hundred percent that come. Jenny and Bruce Grobelaar,

Paul 48:39

I think the best, have always found a way to, to make their strengths work around the game. Right? Like they, they make the game theirs, Yeah. Look at Nick Poe, like throwing the ball out past halfway line. It's not a new thing. It's certainly not something that others haven't done. But the, real personalities, you, Jordan, Pickford, all the different things that he does, the head games that he plays with people, the way he manages things. I think the real greats that we've seen in, goal keeping, just find a way to even buck the trend, right? Like, this might be the way people play right now, but I'm gonna play it my way.

Alan 49:19

Well, yeah, we talk about Bruce Grobelaar I mean, football's about having fun and he always watched, he didn't know what he was gonna do, next. So it was a little bit of that Budgie Burridge was a little bit like that as well, but they had fun. Yeah. and Cannot take that out of the game just because it's your job. Yeah. You still gotta have fun. I got too, when I played, I, built myself up too much. I got too stressed out about games and overthought things and stuff like that. And you look back and go, I didn't enjoy it as much as I should have enjoyed it. so I always try to put a little bit of that into when you're coaching and, trying to help the kids develop. Yeah. what are you playing football for?'cause they love it. Yeah. Well, why should it change? Yeah. You've still gotta have that love and that enjoyment and freedom to play and express yourself. Jordan, he's, he does some mad things like that. He's in, he just has this, he's this like love for the top ones have that love and, for their art. And they want to get better at their art. and it's, that should never, ever leave you from when you put the gloves on and you come into an academy system or a grassroots, wherever it may be, that's gotta stay with you all the way through till you hang your gloves up and you never play again. Because it's too much. There's, so much. Now I certainly, with social media, I'm so glad I, didn't have to, I have like, I could've survived as long as what I did, having that, but, it's, there's just so much scrutiny and analysis. Yeah. And, coach says you've gotta do this and going, I haven't gotta do this. You gotta do this. You gotta, the, even the academy system, you come through and you've got so many people have contact with you and you've, it's almost like the enjoyment can be taken out of it. Yeah. Too quickly. Find a way to be yourself and enjoy it. Enjoy it.'cause it's a brilliant profession. It's if you have a career, football, any level at all. It's, a, it's, a brilliant thing. A brilliant thing to go and play football and, somebody's gonna pay you money. Thanks very much. It's a beat working, I'd say beat working for a living.

Paul 51:31

Well, it is working, but it's, and I talk to people a lot about this in, my line of things is, if you're not, doing something that you enjoy, then you are, you're not earning a good bridge because you are having the life sucked out of you by what you are doing. You've gotta find a place where what you're good at meets your passion and what you enjoy doing and bring the two together.

Alan 51:50

Yeah. And

Paul 51:50

that's where you should be at. And I think that's where a lot of footballers are quite fortunate in that regard, although not in others, because there's always detractors from every opportunity. But if you want an example of having fun in football, I, showed my boy the, Vinnie Jones stepping into the goal when, when they, when their keeper got, so when the keeper got red carded off and Vinnie Jones steps into the goal, that is just an outrageous. An outrageous match. And, just him and the players having fun, the opposition players having fun with him, and, riling them up and just playing, like playing the character. Like nobody, like Vinnie Jones could play the character like nobody else. But I think that's just a prime example of what's missing from the day's game. Almost like that tongue in cheek. Yes, we are footballers, but you know what? Today we're just gonna, I think, the money takes out of it as well, right? Like, there's so much money in football now.

Alan 52:45

There is, I, if that's your motivation, that's your motivation. You can't take that away from people. If that's what makes them better, then fine. But I think that will, if you, gotta think about, just wanna have a career in the game and you've got to one, you've gotta enjoy it. At the end of the day, you have to enjoy it. cause that's the only way you'll get better. But you, can't be at the top of your game. Whatever talent you've got. I was never the most talented, but I thought if I work hard and I'll try and make the most of what I've got. And I think if you, the, I've seen, players and I've seen goalkeepers and they're talent. So talented, but just don't wanna work at it, don't want to push themselves. They don't want to, and they don't reach the level. And that's so frustrating that as a coach, that's the most frustrating thing when you see that talent and they're not prepared to push themselves. And then you see somebody with less talent and they're just nonstop and they're working and working and just can't quite reach those, that level. Yeah. And they find a level and they go and have a career. And that's, great. And they deserve that. But it's, that's so frustrating as a coach, when you see it, come on, gimme some more,'cause the best athletes, no matter who they are, so Steve Redgrave doesn't win all those red, gold medals. Yeah. by sitting on his horse watching telly and watching rowing on, he's out by doing half an hour. He's there at four o'clock in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't, I'm just saying,

Paul 54:19

in a boat row up and down, Steve, if you're watching, let us know. Give it drop a message. Yeah. Find out. That'll be good to know. But,

Alan 54:27

yeah, and then they're going to the gym and they're doing this and in the afternoons and maybe do nighttimes and they're, trying to maximise what,'cause they know somebody else is doing it, and if they're not doing it, then somebody else is going to get ahead of them. So somebody's working

Paul 54:38

harder than

Alan 54:39

them. But that's, yeah. I, even said, I used to, I said all the time to young goalkeepers, it's like, don't think what you're getting at a club. You might be in three nights a week and on a game, on a, weekend. That's not enough. Don't think I'll do that and I'm gonna have a career. That's not enough. You've gotta do more. You've gotta go play school games and play badminton at school and basketball and do whatever you can and become this holistic athlete. And you'll learn there's so many transferrable skills in all these different games. Do all these different skate games, learn all these different skills, and that'll help you become a better footballer wherever you or goalkeeper or whatever it might be. Yeah. So you can never do enough. You can never do enough. No matter if you think you've done enough, you, haven't.

Paul 55:30

I love it. I love it. Alan, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today. Thank you very much for your time. You're welcome. Thanks, Paul. Thank you.

Alan 55:36

top man. Thank you.

Paul 55:37

Wow. Hands like Ray Clemmence. Thank you for watching along as well, or listening. If you're in the, in the car, listening along on the audio, please give us a follow in and subscribe and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye-bye.